YesterdayGirls and CheapDates

[charliels531]

Several pictures which are publically available on ebay have been posted to various galleries, and there have been complaints about the copyright or business identifiers defacing the pictures

For those who are interested, I've chatted a bit with Dave, who is the owner of Yesterday Girls. He and his daughter, who runs Cheap Dates, are in the process of changing their business style, and I wanted to pass along what I learned about the pay site. Given the owner's rules, this is for information only.

When American Art Enterprises went out of business in 1993, Dave bought most (if not all) of their remaining stock of photos. He and his daughter have been selling the original prints on ebay since then. From our talk I gather that they intend to continue that process, but they also have opened a subscription web site where, for $69.90 per year, you can peruse their stock of shots in relatively small sizes and with the copyright stamp off to one side of the photo.

Being an enthusiast, I subscribed.

The site is moderately useful, but I'm not enthusiastic. First, think about why AAE didn't publish these shots. Most are "outtakes", not considered especially good by AAE photo editors. Roberta Pedon's dental problems, which one noticed immediately upon meeting her in person, are on prominent display. Second, the supply of photos varies widely: From one or two of such popular models as Harriet Gellar and Lane Weldon, to hundreds or thousands in undifferentiated categories like "nylons" or "ebony". Third, what is either a plus or a minus, depending on how you look at it: Some of the models are identified by names which are different from the names we know them by: Nika Movenka, for legin's benefit, is in the category marked "Marian Page".

I don't know whether Dave intends to add to the galleries periodically or not. Additions would be welcome, and might change my level of enthusiasm, but it hasn't happened yet.

And while many of the photos are previously unpublished, many of them have in fact been previously published.

[legin]

I tried to join the site about a year ago,to get the Nika content,but they only accepted cash from the U.K....As I wasn't prepared to risk that much in the post I came away rather deflated!!!

[charliels531]

Mmmm. Cash from the U.K.?? Since the business office is in Los Angeles... Oh, well.

For international conversion purposes, by the way, the subscription rate in US dollars is about the cost of 1.25bbls of crude oil.

[winger]

I almost joined, was ready to, but could never quite get the knack of getting a hold of anyone for the information required. In light of what Charlie has said, it is probably just as well. However, flaws or not, there are some girls I would love to see more rare content on...Elaine for one, Karen brown for another and a few others as well.

[zushiomaru]

what's up w those 'fake' names on YG ?
Bonnie Locke is Carla.
Louisa Moritzan is none other than Dyanne Thorne
Arpana Jones looks familiar,dunno if she's got a name here,a big titter..
who are Carol Newell, Karen O'Sullivan,Bonnie Logan,Althea Currier & Hal McQueeny???

[kevin]

YG could have the original model releases - Bonnie Logan and Althea Currier - have folders here.

[ericinwisconsin]

I used to buy from YG on eBay. Generally cordial fellow; rather nice. Until....

I was outbid by someone who only, suspiciously, bids on YG photos. He always gave YG great ratings, but YG never gave him ratings at all. Hmmmm...

I rather suspect the other bidder was YG himself, trying to see how high I'd bid on one of his photos, since I was looking for specific things in the photos I was bidding on. Never enough evidence to prove it, and it was only on one photo, but enough to make me suspicious.

[legin]

I have never understood their ebay 'adult ID required' on many pics, as when they have shown up here they show less of the female form than some non-ID pics...weird!

[winger]

The "name game" with YG is indeed mystifying, maybe they have it right and we have it wrong. Seems like everyone but me thinks "Marlene" is Janice Hurst...who knows, I don't really care all that much, not much chance of ever meeting her, I just need a name, ANY name to howl when I approach the self abuse flash point, as it were.
I havent seen any content on "Cheap Dates" for a heck of a long time come to think of it. I used to eagerly go through YG's ebay listings...now, not so often until I get a pleading whimper from Legin for his Nika pics!:tongue:

[shadowwolf]

Mmmm. Cash from the U.K.?? Since the business office is in Los Angeles... Oh, well.

For international conversion purposes, by the way, the subscription rate in US dollars is about the cost of 1.25bbls of crude oil.

At the current rate that the price of one barrel of 'light, sweet' crude is going on the spot market...that means that the price of membership at that site is also going up...:eek:

No, thanks...I'll stay here, at "M A"...with the rest of my 'family':biggrin:

[charliels531]

It's been a while since I've updated my note. I believe the "archive" has been closed, 'cuz I cannot get access and cannot even access the former site to renew my subscription (long expired). I do know that several of the girls were listed under different names. Darlene English was also listed as YumYum; Dawn Knudsen had a large gallery and the same model had a much smaller gallery under Dee Dee Wickes.

And the price of crude oil has gone through the roof.

[winger]

If only we could run cars on jism....California, here I cum! :eek:

[Mushashi7]

YG et all are ok sites I think. They release a huge amount of rare material not seen before. I wonder where they get all their material. Rather unique.

Model names / ID's:
They are pretty good at identifying the models in general. But they also make small mistakes now and then.
I don't know who is responisble for their material, but he /they do a pretty good job.
A few misplacements or model names grabbed in a hurry is somehting we can live with. Can't we?

[Geemahn]

I used to buy from YG on eBay. Generally cordial fellow; rather nice. Until....

I was outbid by someone who only, suspiciously, bids on YG photos. He always gave YG great ratings, but YG never gave him ratings at all. Hmmmm...

I rather suspect the other bidder was YG himself, trying to see how high I'd bid on one of his photos, since I was looking for specific things in the photos I was bidding on. Never enough evidence to prove it, and it was only on one photo, but enough to make me suspicious.

[shadowwolf]

If only we could run cars on jism....California, here I cum! :eek:

boy, did that leave some scars!

[winger]

Unfortunately as my prostate swells and my libido shrinks I might get to Hoboken on the jiz I can produce these days......shit!

[Geemahn]

I used to buy from YG on eBay. Generally cordial fellow; rather nice. Until....

I was outbid by someone who only, suspiciously, bids on YG photos. He always gave YG great ratings, but YG never gave him ratings at all. Hmmmm...

I rather suspect the other bidder was YG himself, trying to see how high I'd bid on one of his photos, since I was looking for specific things in the photos I was bidding on. Never enough evidence to prove it, and it was only on one photo, but enough to make me suspicious.


YIKES!!!

The text above was not what I thought I was posting! Prior to posting I had hit Firefox's back button by mistake and lost my editing "window." I thought I had recovered my original text, but instead, by mistake, pasted in EricInWisconsin's earlier post, to which I was referring.

My bad. I'm sorry.

Here's a reconstruction of what I wrote before munging my browser content:

I've had good experiences buying a few items from yesterdaygirls on eBay. The prints and transparencies are good quality.

However, the prices that bidders pay strike me as being much too high. Some items, especially those of vintage royalty such as Joan Brinkman, Uschi, and Roberta, end up costing more than US$50. That's for a single item. Not surprisingly, negatives go for even higher prices than prints.

I hope that EricInWisconsin's surmise about shill bidding is wrong. However, it's not beyond belief to think that a seller might want to pull back an auction should bidding not go high enough. Yes, auctions with reserve prices should work here, but then sellers are human too.

[kevin]

Did the same thing once while doing some work here, i hit enter instead of the back button - what a flamin' mess :eek:

I have seen ( when you could see the bidders ID ) the same guy bid on nearly everything - especially the negatives, he does resell them though - a good system, wins more than he loses.

[alcheech]

I used to buy from YG on eBay. Generally cordial fellow; rather nice. Until....

I was outbid by someone who only, suspiciously, bids on YG photos. He always gave YG great ratings, but YG never gave him ratings at all. Hmmmm...

I rather suspect the other bidder was YG himself, trying to see how high I'd bid on one of his photos, since I was looking for specific things in the photos I was bidding on. Never enough evidence to prove it, and it was only on one photo, but enough to make me suspicious.

He doesn't shill bid. He manages 5000+ auctions at a time. He uses a program to give feedback.

[n4k3d]

yeah sure, so he has a program for a shill. sounds flakey.

[Collector]

yeah sure, so he has a program for a shill. sounds flakey.

I 1st dealt with David in the mid-80s when we were both up in the SF Bay Area. I've been dealing with him as "Yesterdaygirls" since the late 90s & have found him to be nothing but fair. The problem is that all these pics are one-of-a-kind & if you don't get 'em the 1st time, you don't get another chance. There are people who bid ridiculous amounts for a single pic & I've found that if I don't compete I lose. Hell, I'll lose more than 1/2 my auctions & still be paying a few hundred $$ per billing. There was always someone who would pay outrageous for certain models (Kandi Barbour especially) & I've lost some high bids on Sue Pearlman, Starr Murphy, Michelle Weber. But if you "join" (for free) the Yesterdaygirls auction site, there are auctions that are up there 1st & they all have "buy it now" option (usually 3x the opening). After the site auctions are done he'll list all the final bids - if something didn't get bid on, he'll sell them to you for opening price. The ones that are left are then moved to e-bay.
As for names, he doesn't make them up - they are on the back of many of the pics along with the job#. This is what I use for my identification. Magazines often just made up any name to go with the pics - usually the mags published by Challenge used the correct names.

[winger]

Collector:
I, for one would love to get back feedback from you on any models here who are, in your opinion, are named incorrectly.
And....
Who is the owner of those bombastic beauties in your avatar?

[Collector]

Collector:
I, for one would love to get back feedback from you on any models here who are, in your opinion, are named incorrectly.
And....
Who is the owner of those bombastic beauties in your avatar?

I'll try to put up the info I have on models names as I post pics. I've mentioned that Janice Ormes is Janice Orames, & I've never seen Bobbi Hall's name spelled with a y. Is there a good place to put this info?
As for my avatar, that is a pic I took of totally wonderful gal who models under the name Deena Duos. She was an all-time 90s fave, & a few years back she made a comeback. I saw her right after her Gent layout came out - in fact I got my subscription issue only a couple days before. This was her 1st layout since the mid-90s, & she was rightfully very proud of it!

[winger]

The best thing to do with information is to PM Kevin or one of the moderators and they can make the changes. Charlie, a moderator, and Kevin, the adminstrator, have both chimed in on this thread (Charlie began the thread many moons ago). I am a quasi moderator as I had to take a break for a couple of years and am now back but dont have the powers yet to do work in the archives.

I remember Deena very well, she had some smoking hot clips years ago and I have seen her pics since her comeback, thanks for jogging my memory.

[charliels531]

Collector, I'm sure you understand that the name thing is more an art than a science. As I understand it, David uses the names either written on the back or on the file folder he bought. Knowing a little about American Art, where he bought most of his inventory, those are the names the models used at the time they were hired for the shoot.

Around here we "discuss" what evidence we have for one name or another, and then usually use the name by which the model was most commonly known. For example, "Nika Movenka" is almost certainly not the "real" name of the model, but I doubt that many members would know to search for "Miriam Page".

[winger]

My point was to just get some more input from Collector, not as a definitive "last word" on a models name.

[legin]

Collector, I'm sure you understand that the name thing is more an art than a science. As I understand it, David uses the names either written on the back or on the file folder he bought. Knowing a little about American Art, where he bought most of his inventory, those are the names the models used at the time they were hired for the shoot.

Around here we "discuss" what evidence we have for one name or another, and then usually use the name by which the model was most commonly known. For example, "Nika Movenka" is almost certainly not the "real" name of the model, but I doubt that many members would know to search for "Miriam Page".

Marion Page actually....Yes,the names thing...Parliament used any old name in the mags.In Nika's case they never used 'Nika Movenka' or 'Marion (Marian) Page'.Fling always went with Nika M...Other mags,a 50/50 split Nika/Marion...Movenka is obviously Russian/E.European,but was that the made up name?..Who the hell knows!!...(the lady herself)...Nika legin Page.:wink:

[winger]

Nika Nika bo binka banana fana fo finka me my mo minka ....Nika

[Collector]

Actually, all this about the names is in anticipation of finally starting to manage my mags - I have a few thousand & have a program that I can (I think) enter the mags, scan the covers & list the models, then be able to click on a model's name & get their appearances. Also stop me from buying a mag more than once ;-). I'm starting with Ace & Gent & it's going SLOW. But I do find I need to standardize the names.

[Collector]

Hey charliels, - yeah I know it's mostly conjecture, but there's one thing of having a name based on what the girl wanted used & coming up with somthing totally stupid, the difference between variations on Darlene Edwards & coming up with Yum Yum Yankowitz - I just have a very hard time with Arv Miller's names. Yeah you can have Michelle Weber (the name I have on her model release) or even sometimes Michelle Weiner, but Toby Wenig??? Arv wanted people to think he had an exclusive on the models.
As far as giving the names on the backs or file folders, that seems to be the closest to "reality" (whatever that means). And it's not just David - I've gotten other pics which have the same thing. And I do have a bunch of model releases - it has the model's real name & her modeling name - we're never gonna be able to check out the real name, but the preferred name is what I go by. As I said in another post, my goal is to try to organize my magazine collection by title & model, & I need to have something to go by. If I have 10 different titles that have Marion (not Miriam) either with or without the last name Page, & Fling with Nika Movenka, I'm gonna go with Marion, especially since I have pics & slides that actually have that name typed onto it.
Back in the 90s, I had a good friend who was art director for Hustler. He was also doing layout for some other magazine, can't remember what it was, except that it was owned by a couple Israelis. He didn't have time to do the mag anymore, so what he was gonna do with me was that since I'm a writer, he was gonna give me the whole mag to write, front to back, including names for the girls & stories about them - he even said I'd be doing the astrology page! The point being that I could make up any name I wanted for the models, & that's what many mags did do. I'm just trying to boil it down.
One thing interesting - sometimes a model would change their modeling name, often girls with more ethnic type names, so I have earlier shots of Susan Zwirn, & later one of the same model as Patricia Burns. I even have one that says "Amber Deveraux AKA Tina Madison"
all the best...

[winger]

Great insight! I have nowhere near the expertise of Charlie and you, I just go by name a model was called the most. I remember for awhile early on "Mary Waters" was called Dani Fabroso in most magazines, then it went to Mary "Cher" Waters, then to just plain Mary Waters...was that her, the mags or what? We now know that Mary wasent her real name either.
The only real constant I remember is Karen Brown from beginning to end with a few stops at Sza Sza for a mag or two.

[hill327]

re: ericinwisconsin
eric, have run into that problem on ebay myseelf. dead giveaway to scam is if you quit bidding, get outbid and after auction closes you get a second chance bid. I never accept second chance bids on ebay because of this.

[kevin]

re: ericinwisconsin
eric, have run into that problem on ebay myseelf. dead giveaway to scam is if you quit bidding, get outbid and after auction closes you get a second chance bid. I never accept second chance bids on ebay because of this.
On occasion a second chance offer is Kosher, for example a seller may have two of the same magazines - it does happen but i would be very wary about vintage photos.
I can tell you that Yesterdaygirls is a reputable seller and a nice guy same with paperdolls.

[yesterdaygirls]

I used to buy from YG on eBay. Generally cordial fellow; rather nice. Until....

I was outbid by someone who only, suspiciously, bids on YG photos. He always gave YG great ratings, but YG never gave him ratings at all. Hmmmm...

I rather suspect the other bidder was YG himself, trying to see how high I'd bid on one of his photos, since I was looking for specific things in the photos I was bidding on. Never enough evidence to prove it, and it was only on one photo, but enough to make me suspicious.

===============================
wow...i don't surf my id (yesterdaygirls) much...but was bored tonight and found this thread for the first time. Let it be stated that i don't shill bid my own items. I have over 1 million images inventory...more than i'll ever see or handle in my life time.

Note that many of my clients only have limited funds to spend on smut and have decided to bid ONLY on YesterdayGirls items....but also note that some clients seemingly have unlimited funds. The largest invoice for one of my major auctions from a signal client was in excess of $18,000.00.

I don't shill bid my items With over 5000 items posting in one cycle, I neither
have the time or need to do so.

...give me a break please....dave/yg

[charliels531]

Hi, Dave! I'm sorry you closed the old YG site; I miss it.

[kevin]

Note that many of my clients only have limited funds to spend on smut and have decided to bid ONLY on YesterdayGirls items....but also note that some clients seemingly have unlimited funds. The largest invoice for one of my major auctions from a signal client was in excess of $18,000.00.
Yes fully agree with Dave, i think he may have gone to over a couple of thousand ebay listings at one go - Christ you wouldn't have time to scratch yourself let alone fart around and why would you, no Dave is an honest seller, i can vouch for that :smile:

[legin]

Whenever I have won a Nika (Marion Page) item on ebay from YG or PD/CD,the service has always been excellent!!

[yesterdaygirls]

Hi, Dave! I'm sorry you closed the old YG site; I miss it.

================================================== =========
I just don't have the time to manage it properly...many clients who funded a year up front...ended up getting an extra year for free...also i just was not working the data base portion of the site to update the model files as i should have...although no one was complaining. I do have clients who want to "re-up"....plus others who want to sign up for the first time...I am still dumping about 20,000 images onto the pay site every year...over 100,000 now...but just no time to deal with it. I've been in this business full time...almost 24/7 for over 30 years...still having fun but getting a bit burned out...It would be nice if I could partner with someone who could run it, but i would want some funds upfront...anyone interested? yesgirls@yesterdaygirls.com

[charliels531]

================================================== =========
I just don't have the time to manage it properly...many clients who funded a year up front...ended up getting an extra year for free...also i just was not working the data base portion of the site to update the model files as i should have...although no one was complaining. I do have clients who want to "re-up"....plus others who want to sign up for the first time...I am still dumping about 20,000 images onto the pay site every year...over 100,000 now...but just no time to deal with it. I've been in this business full time...almost 24/7 for over 30 years...still having fun but getting a bit burned out...It would be nice if I could partner with someone who could run it, but i would want some funds upfront...anyone interested? yesgirls@yesterdaygirls.com

Sorry--The wife said "No" to the buy-in.

[yesterdaygirls]

Sorry--The wife said "No" to the buy-in.

just tell her what i told my wife 30+ years ago..."i promise to only look at the models' faces." (And of course i've always kept my promise.):tongue:

[winger]

Sir,
I'm sure there are a bunch of members here who might jump at the chance to help manage your collection. Pretty much the entire 'who's who" of retro porn knowledge resides here or passes through quite frequently. If you are at all serious about the above, this place is certainly the best place to get the word out. Perhaps you could explain what exactly you need in a little more detail. The stuf you brought to light is certainly amazing as well as helping with some of the names of the mis-identified. Ann Schultz hog tied was enough to send me into the upper stratosphere!

[yesterdaygirls]

Sir,
I'm sure there are a bunch of members here who might jump at the chance to help manage your collection. Pretty much the entire 'who's who" of retro porn knowledge resides here or passes through quite frequently. If you are at all serious about the above, this place is certainly the best place to get the word out. Perhaps you could explain what exactly you need in a little more detail. The stuf you brought to light is certainly amazing as well as helping with some of the names of the mis-identified. Ann Schultz hog tied was enough to send me into the upper stratosphere!
================================
thanks...but please realize i'm not seeking 'fan club' type help...but rather business...graphics..money making help. For it to be successful the pay site has to be financially viable...feel free to contact me @ yesgirls@yesterdaygirls.com should you be interested but you would need to have the computer/graphics/advertising skills plus a financial investment that you think would be financially profitable TO YOU. I'm not seeking someone to work on the site as a labor of love...hope this seems reasonable.?? dave/yg

[magnut]

bbb
what's up w those 'fake' names on YG ?
Bonnie Locke is Carla.
Louisa Moritzan is none other than Dyanne Thorne
Arpana Jones looks familiar,dunno if she's got a name here,a big titter..
who are Carol Newell, Karen O'Sullivan,Bonnie Logan,Althea Currier & Hal McQueeny???

Arpana Jones is also known as Claudia Beatty and Shelly Pierce; both of these names were used in many magazines.

[magnut]

I have never understood their ebay 'adult ID required' on many pics, as when they have shown up here they show less of the female form than some non-ID pics...weird!

eBay US categorically required adult verification in their Adult Only section, which includes things that really don't belong in Adult Only, except that the seller was being extra careful or put it there inadvertently.

[magnut]

b

As for names, he doesn't make them up - they are on the back of many of the pics along with the job#. This is what I use for my identification. Magazines often just made up any name to go with the pics - usually the mags published by Challenge used the correct names.


I have a large collection of Challenge mags, so it's good to know that they usually used correct names. I recognized several years ago that the names in Challenge mags tended to correspond to names on slides etc sold on eBay. A number of titles - especially minor titles - are on my shit list for fake names that nobody recognizes. I never liked Arv Miller's names, but at least they are known and recognizable, so if I want to sell one, people will often recognize the names. The fake names in Dapper, on the other hand, are recognizable to nobody, and useless in listing or selling. There are eBay sellers who list model names and with the minor titles, I don't gain any info because I don't recognize the names.

But what can or should someone use for identification when they don't have access to prints or slides? My favorite model was in many late '70s mags but is totally unknown today because she appeared under a lot of names and had a lot of different looks. It's like you need a program or scorecard to keep track of the models.

[Tony T]

eBay US categorically required adult verification in their Adult Only section, which includes things that really don't belong in Adult Only, except that the seller was being extra careful or put it there inadvertently.

And as soon as pictures go into the 'Adult Section' they become invisible to those of us outside the USA, as e-bay are paranoid about being sued for inappropriate material, even though Europe (at least) is more liberal than the States, and we are refused access to that part of the site:mad:

Apologies for my rant.

TT